Legislature(2001 - 2002)

05/01/2002 03:55 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                          May 1, 2002                                                                                           
                           3:55 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair                                                                                            
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Joe Hayes                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 270(L&C)                                                                                                 
"An Act extending the termination date of the Board of                                                                          
Dispensing Opticians; relating to the regulation of dispensing                                                                  
opticians; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 395, "An Act prohibiting discrimination by credit                                                                
rating or credit scoring in insurance rates; and providing for                                                                  
an effective date."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 270                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:DISPENSING OPTICIANS:EXTEND BD/REGULATION                                                                           
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF LEG BUDGET & AUDIT                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/01/02     2089       (S)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/01/02     2089       (S)        L&C, FIN                                                                                     
02/14/02                (S)        L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                     
02/14/02                (S)        Moved CS(L&C) Out of                                                                         
                                   Committee                                                                                    
02/14/02                (S)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
02/19/02     2222       (S)        L&C RPT CS 3DP 1NR SAME TITLE                                                                
02/19/02     2222       (S)        DP: STEVENS, DAVIS,                                                                          
                                   TORGERSON;                                                                                   
02/19/02     2222       (S)        NR: AUSTERMAN                                                                                
02/19/02     2222       (S)        FN1: (CED)                                                                                   
03/25/02     2517       (S)        FIN RPT CS(L&C) 5DP 3NR                                                                      
03/25/02     2518       (S)        DP: KELLY, AUSTERMAN, OLSON,                                                                 
                                   WILKEN,                                                                                      
03/25/02     2518       (S)        LEMAN; NR: DONLEY, GREEN,                                                                    
                                   WARD                                                                                         
03/25/02     2518       (S)        FN1: (CED)                                                                                   
03/25/02                (S)        FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
03/25/02                (S)        Moved Out of Committee                                                                       
03/25/02                (S)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
03/28/02                (S)        RLS AT 8:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                
03/28/02                (S)        -- Time Change --                                                                            
03/28/02                (S)        MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                  
04/02/02     2586       (S)        RULES TO CALENDAR 4/2/02                                                                     
04/02/02     2588       (S)        READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                         
04/02/02     2588       (S)        L&C CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                  
04/02/02     2589       (S)        ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                    
                                   UNAN CONSENT                                                                                 
04/02/02     2589       (S)        READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
                                   270(L&C)                                                                                     
04/02/02     2589       (S)        PASSED Y18 N- E2                                                                             
04/02/02     2589       (S)        EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS                                                                    
                                   PASSAGE                                                                                      
04/02/02     2593       (S)        TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                           
04/02/02     2593       (S)        VERSION: CSSB 270(L&C)                                                                       
04/03/02     2770       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/03/02     2770       (H)        L&C, FIN                                                                                     
04/12/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/12/02                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/12/02                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/17/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/17/02                (H)        <Bill Postponed>                                                                             
05/01/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 395                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:INSURANCE DISCRIMINATION BY CREDIT RATING                                                                           
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)CRAWFORD                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/08/02     2183       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/08/02     2183       (H)        L&C                                                                                          
02/08/02     2183       (H)        REFERRED TO LABOR & COMMERCE                                                                 
03/06/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
03/06/02                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/06/02                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/19/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/19/02                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
05/01/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Heather Brakes, Staff                                                                                                           
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 270.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Catherine Reardon, Director                                                                                                     
Division of Occupational Licensing                                                                                              
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
PO Box 110806                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0806                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Responded to questions on behalf of the                                                                    
department of Commerce.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DAVID D'AMATO, Staff                                                                                                            
to Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 395.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL LESSMEIER, Attorney                                                                                                     
Lessmeier & Winters;                                                                                                            
Lobbyist for State Farm Insurance Company                                                                                       
3000 Vintage Boulevard, Suite 100                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Characterized [credit scoring] as a                                                                        
powerful tool for predicting future loss.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JIM FURUNESS                                                                                                                    
AARP Capital City Task Force;                                                                                                   
National Association of Retired Federal Employees                                                                               
1285 Fritz Cove Road                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Announced support of [CSHB 395].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CARRIE TOLLEFSON, Legislative Director                                                                                          
Washington State Office of the Insurance Commissioner                                                                           
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Discussed Washington  State's legislation,                                                               
after which HB 395 was modeled.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BOB LOHR, Director                                                                                                              
Division of Insurance                                                                                                           
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
3601 C Street, Suite 1324                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5948                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 395.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-70, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LISA  MURKOWSKI  called   the  House  Labor  and  Commerce                                                               
Standing   Committee    meeting   to    order   at    3:55   p.m.                                                               
Representatives  Murkowski, Meyer,  Rokeberg,  and Crawford  were                                                               
present at the  call to order.  Representatives  Halcro and Hayes                                                               
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 270-DISPENSING OPTICIANS:EXTEND BD/REGULATION                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0078                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be  CS  FOR SENATE  BILL  NO.  270(L&C),  "An Act  extending  the                                                               
termination date  of the Board of  Dispensing Opticians; relating                                                               
to the regulation  of dispensing opticians; and  providing for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0110                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG move  to adopt HCS CSSB  270, labeled 22-                                                               
LS1382\S,  Lauterbach, 5/1/02,  as the  working document.   There                                                               
being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0153                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HEATHER  BRAKES,   Staff  to   Senator  Gene   Therriault,  Joint                                                               
Committee  on   Legislative  Budget   and  Audit,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, testified on  behalf of the sponsor of SB  270.  She                                                               
noted that  she had  just obtained  a copy  of the  proposed HCS,                                                               
which repeals the  board and makes licensure  an optional system.                                                               
An applicant who  wishes to be licensed as  a dispensing optician                                                               
would fulfill the requirements under Section  3 of the bill.  The                                                               
department  could require  a  home-study  course, she  mentioned.                                                               
She reminded the  committee that SB 270 was drafted  based on the                                                               
audit  report  which  made  a  case for  eventually  going  to  a                                                               
voluntary registration system for dispensing opticians.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG directed  attention  to  Section 11,  AS                                                               
09.55.560, which  deletes "a  dispensing optician  licensed under                                                               
AS  08.71" from  the definition  of health  care provider.   Does                                                               
this affect  whether they could  still be reimbursed as  a health                                                               
care provider, he asked.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0397                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CATHERINE REARDON, Director,  Division of Occupational Licensing,                                                               
Department of  Community & Economic Development  (DCED), reviewed                                                               
the references in Sections 11 and  12 and stated that they do not                                                               
affect health  insurance reimbursements.   Section 11  relates to                                                               
arbitration  agreements,  and  Section   12  relates  to  medical                                                               
records and the peer review process.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked how the  transitional provisions of Section                                                               
14 would play out if this bill were adopted.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. REARDON  explained that people  with existing  licenses could                                                               
renew  their licenses,  although  it's not  necessary to  require                                                               
them  to apply  on  time,  as stated  in  this  bill.   Licensing                                                               
requirements are getting easier in  this bill, so there's no need                                                               
to  make it  more  restrictive.   She  suggested  working on  the                                                               
language of  line 21.   There's no  need to eliminate  any people                                                               
from the renewal option, she remarked.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0609                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI inquired as to  the impact this legislation would                                                               
have on fees and the registration processes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  REARDON said  there would  be a  savings of  $3,000-$5,000 a                                                               
year  in travel  because the  board wouldn't  exist and  division                                                               
staff costs  would go down.   However, license renewals  by fewer                                                               
people could become  more expensive because there  would be fewer                                                               
members.   She  clarified  that the  division  is not  expressing                                                               
support for the bill.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked  if the division has  received any feedback                                                               
from board members about the repeal of the board.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  REARDON related  that the  one board  member she  has spoken                                                               
with is opposed to closing the board.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  public testimony on Version S                                                               
would  be postponed  because committee  members  just received  a                                                               
copy  of the  HCS, which  is  quite different  from the  Senate's                                                               
version.   She  invited the  public who  couldn't return  for the                                                               
hearing on Friday to fax comments to the committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0871                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Ms.  Reardon to clarify whether the                                                               
board would discontinue or sunset this year or next.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. REARDON,  in response  to Representative  Rokeberg, explained                                                               
that if the legislature doesn't act,  next year would be the wind                                                               
down year and the board would disappear a year from now.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[CSSB 270(L&C) was held over.]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB 395-INSURANCE DISCRIMINATION BY CREDIT RATING                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0901                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  final order of business would                                                               
be  HOUSE BILL  NO. 395,  "An Act  prohibiting discrimination  by                                                               
credit  rating   or  credit  scoring  in   insurance  rates;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  moved to  adopt CS HB  395, 22-LS1425\0,                                                               
Ford, 5/01/02, as  the work draft.  There being  no objection, it                                                               
was so ordered.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DAVID D'AMATO,  Staff to  Representative Crawford,  described the                                                               
minor  changes  to  the  earlier  version.   He  noted  that  the                                                               
industry has had  the opportunity to review the  addition on page                                                               
1, lines 6-8,  which says an insurer must  obtain the applicant's                                                               
oral or  written permission  in order to  use credit  scoring for                                                               
insurance  purposes.    He  pointed out  the  language  that  was                                                               
inserted in  paragraph (4) located  on both  page 2, line  23 and                                                               
[on  page]  5,  line  15.   The  proposed  CS  also  changes  the                                                               
effective  date  to  January  1, 2003.    These  provisions  were                                                               
deleted  because   the  insurance   industry  objected   and  the                                                               
Washington Division of Insurance found the provisions unwieldy.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   ROKEBERG  asked   how   these  provisions   were                                                               
unwieldy.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. D'AMATO explained that the  regulators and insurance industry                                                               
found the lack of definition  for "initial purchase" unwieldy and                                                               
questioned whether  it referred  to a  new house  and car  or new                                                               
financing for  a used  car or  old house.   The language  was too                                                               
ambiguous.  Originally  this bill was the same  as Washington and                                                               
Connecticut's regulations.   When  those states  determined these                                                               
provisions were not workable, "we" followed their example.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1199                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. D'AMATO  further explained how  paragraph (4) in  [in Version                                                               
L]  worked on  page 5,  line 15.   It  was the  failure of  those                                                               
provisions  to be  adequately defined  that  was problematic,  he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1242                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI turned to subsection (b)  on page 1, line 9.  She                                                               
recalled from [testimony provided  by] Progressive Insurance that                                                               
if a citizen who receives a  notice of adverse action can request                                                               
get  a statement  detailing the  reasoning behind  it.   However,                                                               
subsection  (b) has  been  changed to  provide  that the  insurer                                                               
shall provide  written notice  when there  is an  adverse action.                                                               
Therefore, any  adverse action taken  requires the  full detailed                                                               
notice and the  statement of the factors that led  to the adverse                                                               
action.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1304                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  D'AMATO said  this section  has  not been  changed from  the                                                               
previous  version  before  the   committee.    He  explained  the                                                               
reasoning for providing the notice.   The credit score formulated                                                               
by the  insurance company was part  of a formula to  which people                                                               
didn't  generally  have  access  versus the  credit  rating  that                                                               
people can access.   Credit documents provide  an explanation and                                                               
a table whereby  one can see there's a negative  score.  However,                                                               
an insurance score  is part of a larger algorithm  and if there's                                                               
a problem with  it, one wouldn't know what the  problem is unless                                                               
[the insurance industry]  actually tells them.   For example, the                                                               
consumer  should be  aware that  the use  of a  particular credit                                                               
card  is viewed  as  a problem  by the  insurance  industry.   If                                                               
insurers  distinguish themselves  from the  normal credit  model,                                                               
they  should  explain how  their  model  works to  consumers,  he                                                               
remarked.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   MURKOWSKI  acknowledged   that  subsections   (b)  wasn't                                                               
different rather the subsections were relettered.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1466                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL LESSMEIER,  Attorney, Lessmeier  & Winters,  Lobbyist for                                                               
State Farm  Insurance Company, began  by relating that  there are                                                               
certain number of things that  aren't in reasonable dispute about                                                               
the issue  of credit.   For instance, there is  general agreement                                                               
that different companies use  [credit scoring] differently, which                                                               
illustrates  that  the  free  market   system  in  this  area  of                                                               
insurance  is  working  well  in  Alaska.   He  also  noted  that                                                               
different   companies  use   [credit   scoring]  differently   at                                                               
different times.   For example, at  the time of the  last hearing                                                               
State Farm  was using credit  scoring with  homeowner's insurance                                                               
and although  that is no  longer the case,  it may change  in the                                                               
future.   "The  ability to  be able  to use  [credit scoring]  is                                                               
important,"  he said.   He  then pointed  out that  another point                                                               
beyond dispute  is the  fact that the  Fair Credit  Reporting Act                                                               
will allow the direct writers  to use credit scoring to prescreen                                                               
applicants.   Therefore,  what  is done  today  will only  impact                                                               
insurance written by Alaskan insurance brokers.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. LESSMEIER  turned to  an item he  said was  beyond reasonable                                                               
dispute, which is  the [notion] that there is  a high correlation                                                               
between  the   underwriting  score  that  uses   credit  and  the                                                               
predictability   of  future   loss.     He   recalled  that   the                                                               
representative from  the Division of Insurance  testified to this                                                               
correlation.   Mr.  Lessmeier informed  the committee  that State                                                               
Farm  began  as   a  skeptic  of  the  use   of  credit  scoring.                                                               
Therefore, State Farm took 1.3  million records and divided those                                                               
records  into two  groups.   One  group was  made  up of  800,000                                                               
records and  the other  was a control  group of  500,000 records.                                                               
With the  800,000 records, the  company reviewed  various factors                                                               
that  were  viewed as  predictable  of  future  loss.   Of  those                                                               
factors, those thought to be  most predictive were used to create                                                               
a model  that was  subsequently applied to  the control  group of                                                               
500,000 records.  That control  group was followed for two years.                                                               
The  result was  the  finding that  the  correlation between  the                                                               
underwriting  score that  uses credit  and the  predictability of                                                               
future loss was  very high.  That model was  applied to 1 million                                                               
live cases and  again the correlation was found  to be remarkably                                                               
high.   For  example, those  in the  10 percent  highest category                                                               
have more than twice the loss  than those in the lowest category.                                                               
Mr. Lessmeier  characterized [credit scoring] as  a powerful tool                                                               
predicting future loss.   Therefore, if the goal  is for insurers                                                               
to be  able to charge  a fair  premium, one that  correlates with                                                               
the predictability  of loss,  then [credit  scoring] is  a useful                                                               
tool in helping achieve that goal.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LESSMEIER  remarked that the  use of credit in  Alaska hasn't                                                               
been a  problem.  Therefore,  he suggested that the  division has                                                               
tools in  place to address  the event that  the use of  credit is                                                               
being misused.   For example, the division must  already have the                                                               
ability  to access  credit  scoring  information when  evaluating                                                               
rates.  However, the law is  problematic in that the model itself                                                               
isn't confidential.   With regard to  underwriting, Mr. Lessmeier                                                               
pointed  out that  there is  also a  statutory provision  that if                                                               
different  classes of  risk are  treated differently,  without an                                                               
adequate justification, then  those can be found to  be an unfair                                                               
trade  practice.   Mr. Lessmeier  reiterated that  there isn't  a                                                               
problem with  credit scoring  in Alaska  because the  director of                                                               
the division  already has the tools  to address this issue  if it                                                               
were misused.   He  noted that he  has had  extensive discussions                                                               
with the sponsor  in the Senate and  with Representative Crawford                                                               
in an attempt  to create additional tools for  the director while                                                               
allowing [credit scoring]  to be used on behalf  of the industry.                                                               
To  that end,  "I think  we've come  a long  way," he  said.   He                                                               
expressed  hope  that there  will  be  legislation that  will  be                                                               
agreeable to both Senator Cowdery and Representative Crawford.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1787                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   MEYER  related   his   understanding  that   Mr.                                                               
Lessmeier and the industry he  represents do not support [Version                                                               
O].                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. LESSMEIER answered in the affirmative.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER  asked  if   Mr.  Lessmeier  supported  the                                                               
similar legislation in the Senate.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LESSMEIER said,  "I think we are getting very,  very close to                                                               
having  a  bill that  ...  would  be  acceptable to  my  client."                                                               
However,  he indicated  that the  industry  may not  have had  an                                                               
opportunity  to  review  the  [current  proposal].    In  further                                                               
response to  Representative Meyer,  Mr. Lessmeier  specified that                                                               
the division  director's job is  to monitor complaints.   He said                                                               
he  believes there  have been  very few  complaints about  credit                                                               
[scoring].  Furthermore, it's difficult  to respond to the misuse                                                               
of credit  [scoring] without  knowing the  information.   He said                                                               
that the real  test is whether there has been  a complaint to the                                                               
division and  whether it  has been investigated  and found  to be                                                               
valid.  Mr. Lessmeier acknowledged  that [credit scoring], a tool                                                               
like any other  tool, could be misused.   Therefore, the question                                                               
is  whether the  division director  has the  adequate ability  to                                                               
stop any misuse.   "We have worked  very hard to try  to create a                                                               
balance that allows  the tool to be used, but  also does give the                                                               
director  additional power.   We  don't  think he  needs it,  but                                                               
there are some that do," he remarked.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1890                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  recalled that in earlier  discussions there                                                               
was  some  question  as  to the  direct  correlation  between  an                                                               
individual's  credit score  and driving  record.   He interpreted                                                               
Mr.  Lessmeier to  be  relating  that as  far  as  State Farm  is                                                               
concerned there is a direct correlation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LESSMEIER   answered  that   [credit  scoring   offers]  the                                                               
predictability of  loss.   He informed  the committee  that State                                                               
Farm's model  is based on  credit and  loss history.   State Farm                                                               
believes  the correlation  is  very high,  he  related, and  thus                                                               
[credit scoring] helps  State Farm determine who to  write or who                                                               
not to write.  Therefore, State  Farm doesn't want to be deprived                                                               
of that tool.   In further response to  Representative Meyer, Mr.                                                               
Lessmeier  explained  that  State  Farm's  auto  insurance  model                                                               
considers  loss history  and citations,  which are  combined with                                                               
credit  factors.   Each  factor is  given a  weight  in order  to                                                               
develop a  score.  That  score is  only utilized when  someone is                                                               
making an  application initially.   Mr. Lessmeier  clarified that                                                               
State  Farm   doesn't  use  [credit   scoring]  to  rate.     For                                                               
homeowner's insurance,  the only  reason State Farm  used [credit                                                               
scoring] was  to write  someone that  it wouldn't  have otherwise                                                               
written  whereas for  automobile insurance  [credit scoring]  may                                                               
have been used to not write someone.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1990                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  related  his  understanding  that  this                                                               
legislation isn't precluding the use of credit scoring.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LESSMEIER replied  no and  acknowledged that  Representative                                                               
Crawford has worked hard to craft a compromise.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  recalled Mr. Lessmeier's  statement that                                                               
credit  scoring is  a good  predictor [of  risk] and  pointed out                                                               
that redlining  of zip  codes a few  years ago was  said to  be a                                                               
good predictor [of risk].                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LESSMEIER acknowledged  that credit scoring could  be used to                                                               
[do what was done with red-lining  of zip codes] a few years ago.                                                               
He noted that the only [research]  he was aware of was a Virginia                                                               
study which  found that  [red-lining on the  basis of  zip codes]                                                               
was not  occurring.  Mr.  Lessmeier remarked that he  didn't know                                                               
of  any evidence  that  any  company in  Alaska  has used  credit                                                               
scoring to [do red-lining].                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  specified  that the  insinuation  isn't                                                               
that State  Farm is  redlining certain  areas.   However, [credit                                                               
scoring] has  the same effect  when certain groups of  people are                                                               
redlined, such  as seniors.   Representative  Crawford emphasized                                                               
that people have financial setbacks  which have no correlation to                                                               
whether those  folks are a  good or bad credit  risk.  This  as a                                                               
policy call with  regard to the proper use of  credit scoring, he                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. LESSMEIER remarked  that he didn't know of  any evidence that                                                               
credit scoring  penalizes seniors in  any way.   In fact,  if the                                                               
use of  this tool was  studied with the assumption  that everyone                                                               
used  credit  scoring in  the  same  way,  he  said he  would  be                                                               
surprised that  it would  penalize seniors or  young people.   He                                                               
suggested that the  findings would reveal that the  use of credit                                                               
scoring with oversight  would have a high  predictability.  Then,                                                               
the  policy  decision  would  be   one  regarding  whether  those                                                               
identified  as  being in  categories  of  higher groups  of  loss                                                               
should   be   priced   accordingly.       Without   pricing   the                                                               
aforementioned accordingly,  the responsible people pay  more for                                                               
those creating  the loss,  which State Farm  views as  unfair, he                                                               
said.   He echoed earlier comments  that there is no  evidence of                                                               
the  misuse  of  credit  scoring in  Alaska.    Furthermore,  the                                                               
division,  even  without  this  legislation,  has  the  tools  to                                                               
prevent misuse.   With  this legislation,  the division  has more                                                               
tools.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD turned  to the  standardization of  laws                                                               
and noted his  observation that the country as a  whole is moving                                                               
toward regulation and  limiting the use of credit  scoring.  This                                                               
legislation is  modeled after legislation in  Connecticut and the                                                               
State of Washington.  "Wouldn't it  be good to have basically the                                                               
same set of laws to work with in each state," he asked.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LESSMEIER  related  his  understanding  that  the  State  of                                                               
Washington's  law is  so  restrictive that  the  model cannot  be                                                               
used.    Mr.  Lessmeier  pointed  out  that  every  state  has  a                                                               
different  regulatory  system and  thus  he  didn't believe  it's                                                               
possible to  achieve a uniform  model.  Mr. Lessmeier  noted that                                                               
although  the  National  Association of  Insurance  Commissioners                                                               
(NAIC) attempts to gain uniformity  with the passage of insurance                                                               
laws, he didn't  believe the NAIC has  accepted model legislation                                                               
[in this  area].   Ad hoc  laws are  being created  by individual                                                               
states,  he  said.    "Just  because they  have  a  bad  bill  in                                                               
Washington, doesn't  mean we  ought to  use that  as a  model and                                                               
create a bad bill in Alaska," he remarked.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2272                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM FURUNESS, AARP Capital City  Task Force; National Association                                                               
of  Retired  Federal  Employees,  began  by  saying  that  credit                                                               
scoring of  insurance rates  discriminates against  older people.                                                               
Mr.  Furuness announced  support  of [CSHB  395]  because of  the                                                               
belief that  it will eliminate  some of the discrimination.   For                                                               
example, a individual  who doesn't use credit  regularly may face                                                               
a  negative and  discriminatory  score under  the credit  scoring                                                               
method.   Older  individuals who  don't use  credit shouldn't  be                                                               
forced to pay  higher insurance premiums simply  because of their                                                               
reluctance to build debt.   Furthermore, credit scoring shouldn't                                                               
be used in determining automobile insurance rates.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-70, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2323                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CARRIE TOLLEFSON,  Legislative Director, Washington  State Office                                                               
of  the  Insurance  Commissioner, testified  via  teleconference.                                                               
She  noted that  Representative Crawford  had requested  that she                                                               
provide  testimony regarding  Washington  State's credit  scoring                                                               
legislation,  in  particular  the  process  and  the  stakeholder                                                               
involvement.   Ms.  Tollefson remarked  that  the credit  scoring                                                               
process in Washington  State was very dynamic and  began when the                                                               
current commissioner  was running  for office.   The commissioner                                                               
heard  about  credit scoring  from  insurance  agents during  his                                                               
campaign.   Insurance agents  expressed concern  with the  use of                                                               
credit scoring  because long-term clients were  being turned down                                                               
for insurance.   Furthermore, there  was trouble  predicting with                                                               
which  company the  clients could  be placed  because the  credit                                                               
scoring formulas  were proprietary.  The  Washington State Office                                                               
of the  Commissioner has received several  hundred letters, phone                                                               
calls, and  e-mails from consumers commenting  on credit scoring.                                                               
Therefore, the commissioner  felt he had no choice  but to review                                                               
the  issue  and thus  the  commissioner  met  with those  in  the                                                               
industry  individually and  as  a  group as  well  as with  those                                                               
companies that  create credit scoring models.   Additionally, the                                                               
commissioner held  public meetings throughout the  state in order                                                               
to hear what  consumers were experiencing.   The commissioner was                                                               
surprised by the turn out at the public meetings.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. TOLLEFSON informed the committee  that in Washington State it                                                               
was found that credit scoring was  being used across the board by                                                               
nearly all  insurance companies.  However,  companies used credit                                                               
scoring  differently.    Therefore, legislation  specifying  that                                                               
credit  scoring  couldn't be  used  in  underwriting at  all  was                                                               
developed.   Initially, there  wasn't much  substantive feedback,                                                               
which  she   guessed  was  because   of  the  thought   that  the                                                               
legislation  was too  radical and  would easily  die.   There was                                                               
really  no discussion  until  it became  evident  that there  was                                                               
clear  bipartisan support  for the  legislation.   Ms.  Tollefson                                                               
pointed out  that throughout the  process there was  concern over                                                               
the 20  percent rate cap.   Companies were concerned that  the 20                                                               
percent rate  cap would result  in rates and  premiums increasing                                                               
for  those with  good credit  scores.   Therefore, comments  were                                                               
solicited and other  states were reviewed in order  to develop an                                                               
alternative  approach.   That was  when  [Connecticut's law]  was                                                               
found.   [Connecticut's law] seemed  to address some of  the most                                                               
egregious factors.   For example, small business  owners who keep                                                               
lines of  credit open, although  those lines of credit  aren't in                                                               
use.   Those business  owners shouldn't  be penalized  for having                                                               
high  lines of  credit.   The Connecticut  approach seemed  to be                                                               
moderate and  have a  lot of logic.   Therefore,  the [Washington                                                               
State]  legislation  was  changed   to  reflect  the  Connecticut                                                               
approach,  which   led  to   some  significant   discussions  and                                                               
dialogue.   This is the  point at  which the process  became very                                                               
dynamic in Washington State, she said.   She noted that there was                                                               
industry involvement throughout the process.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. TOLLEFSON concluded  by saying that the final  bill passed in                                                               
Washington State represented a lot  of compromise.  The insurance                                                               
industry worked hard  with the interested parties.   In fact, one                                                               
of the  major companies in  Washington supported the bill  as did                                                               
the independent insurance brokers and  agents in Washington.  She                                                               
noted that several  companies didn't like the bill  and agreed to                                                               
walk  away.   At the  end of  the process,  the only  entity that                                                               
actively  opposed  the  bill  was  the  National  Association  of                                                               
Independent Insurers  (NAII).  Although the  legislation wasn't a                                                               
consensus bill, it did represent much compromise.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TOLLEFSON, in  response to  Chair Murkowski,  clarified that                                                               
the effective date  on Washington State's bill is two  part.  The                                                               
underwriting portion of  the bill will be  effective January 2003                                                               
and the rate portion will be effective June 2003.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1996                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB  LOHR,   Director,  Division  of  Insurance,   Department  of                                                               
Community  & Economic  Development, announced  that the  division                                                               
supports HB  395 because  the division believes  there is  a need                                                               
for  additional  regulation of  the  use  of credit  history  and                                                               
credit  scoring  in  insurance underwriting  and  rating.    This                                                               
legislation addressed  issues that  are of concern  to consumers,                                                               
such  as   not  being   renewed  because   of  a   credit  score.                                                               
Furthermore, this  legislation provides  appropriate restrictions                                                               
on some  types of credit  information that may not  be considered                                                               
in calculating  a credit score,  such as medical  credit history,                                                               
purchase of  a home or vehicle,  and type of credit  card used by                                                               
the  consumer.    Mr.  Lohr noted  that  previous  testimony  has                                                               
indicated that limitations on the  use of credit information will                                                               
make  insurance less  available and  less competitive.   However,                                                               
these claims haven't been supported by documentation.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOHR  stated that  the  division  believes there  are  three                                                               
important  provisions in  HB 395  that  should be  retained.   He                                                               
indicated that  those provisions are in  the following locations:                                                               
page 2, lines  1-4; page 2, lines 15-25; and  page 5, lines 6-19.                                                               
Those  specific regulatory  tools  are highly  desirable for  the                                                               
division.  Mr.  Lohr pointed out that the  debate surrounding the                                                               
authority  the  division  needs  could  quickly  devolve  into  a                                                               
philosophical discussion.   Mr. Lohr hoped that  the division has                                                               
shown that it's  not a rogue regulator.   Therefore, he suggested                                                               
that if the authority in HB  395 is assigned to the division, the                                                               
division would  use the tool  responsibly.  Mr. Lohr  related the                                                               
division's  belief   that  credit   scoring  is  a   valid  tool.                                                               
Furthermore, there  is a  sufficiently valid  correlation between                                                               
credit  scoring  and  the  loss experienced  for  auto  and  home                                                               
insurance to justify its use when properly regulated.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1831                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI highlighted Mr.  Lessmeier's testimony that there                                                               
was no  NAIC model available  that relates to credit  scoring for                                                               
insurance.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHR  said he believes  that is  the case, although  there is                                                               
work being  done in that area.   He highlighted that  NAIC models                                                               
are often  the result of  a state's  idea.  Therefore,  he wasn't                                                               
sure  that the  lack  of an  NAIC model  is  an argument  against                                                               
legislation such as HB 395.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOHR, in  further  response to  Chair  Murkowski, said  that                                                               
there have  been a  number of complaints.   The  typical consumer                                                               
complaint  has  been  that a  renewal  quote  was  astronomically                                                               
larger  than what  the  consumer has  been  paying, although  the                                                               
consumer  hasn't  had tickets  or  accidents.   In  those  cases,                                                               
credit scoring seems to have been  the factor, he remarked.  Such                                                               
complaints  [are often]  moot because  the consumer  moves to  an                                                               
insurance carrier that  doesn't use credit scoring.   However, as                                                               
the number  of companies using credit  scoring increases, finding                                                               
companies not using credit scoring may become difficult.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1736                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  asked  if  the  tools  and  the  report                                                               
provided under the legislation are appropriate.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHR  answered that  the current version  of HB  395 provides                                                               
the division  with the necessary tools  to appropriately restrict                                                               
the  use of  credit scoring  while  preserving its  purpose as  a                                                               
rating  and  underwriting tool  for  insurers.   He  related  his                                                               
belief that  the legislation does  achieve the proper  balance of                                                               
providing restrictions  to ensure  that unfair  discrimination is                                                               
not the result  of the use of  this tool and that the  uses of it                                                               
for purposes of underwriting and rating are proper.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI drew attention to  Section 1 of [Version O] where                                                               
the language specifies  that credit scoring can't  be used unless                                                               
oral or  written permission is  obtained from the applicant.   It                                                               
seems that allowing oral permission  would provide the insurer an                                                               
easy out when there are complaints.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHR  said that  Chair Murkowski has  a good  point, although                                                               
requiring written  permission requires paperwork.   Therefore, he                                                               
viewed this  as a  judgment call with  regard to  the appropriate                                                               
balance.   Mr.  Lohr highlighted  that Section  1 [could  also be                                                               
problematic]  when a  customer denies  permission  to use  credit                                                               
scoring;  what  are the  consequences  in  such a  situation,  he                                                               
asked.  Therefore,  Section 1 could perhaps have  some clarity in                                                               
regard to  the consequences of  the denial of permission  and the                                                               
degree of documentation required.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI agreed that [Section 1] is a loose area.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHR mentioned that he  agrees there may be proprietary value                                                               
to [credit scoring] models and  confidentiality of the model as a                                                               
trade  secret  is  probably appropriate.    However,  the  public                                                               
deserves  to  know  that  the  division  has  the  tools  and  is                                                               
regulating credit  scoring properly before the  models "go behind                                                               
the  black   curtain."    Therefore,  adequate   legislation  and                                                               
implementation of that legislation are required.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[HB 395 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Labor and  Commerce Standing Committee  meeting was  adjourned at                                                               
5:05 p.m.                                                                                                                       

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